So I’m not really sure if you’ve heard about this but a month or two ago, I was virgin-post hunting and ended up stumbling on something pretty interesting.
I’ll post bits and pieces from the Wikipedia page but I highly suggest actually reading up on it yourself.
Involuntary celibacy is the absence in human sexuality of intimate relationships or sexual intercourse for reasons other than voluntary celibacy, asexuality, antisexualism, or sexual abstinence… [it] describes those who, despite being open to sexual intimacy and potential romance with someone and also making active, repeated efforts towards such an end, cannot cause any such end(s) to occur with any significant degree of regularity—or even at all… First, it is a pattern-like, semi-perpetual condition that cannot seem to improve despite concentrated effort of the affected individual towards improving sex appeal and social skills to try to attract sexual partners. Second, involuntarily celibate individuals are at a complete or near-complete lack for intimate physical connection for very long spans of time—years and even sometimes decades, not merely weeks or months—and are also at a complete or near-complete lack of opportunities for sexual advancement in the first place, thereby making betterment of their own sexuality through accumulation of “sexual experience” impossible… most incels, based on inquests by researchers into the population, are not especially physically unattractive, and most resemble in an interpersonal sense their peers who are not involuntarily celibate.
There is a forum for incels (involuntary celibates) located over here. It takes a few days for the administrators to approve your account for posting but you can read some posts while waiting. Although most of the demographic seem to be male, women can be involuntary celibate too (did I really need to say that?).
What I find really interesting is some of the resources that have been posted up. For instance:
1. A link to Dan Savage’s advice for losing your virginity later in life
2. The incel’s guide to seeking therapy
3. And the best one of all success stories
Anyway, I think everyone should take the time to check it out. There’s some good stuff there.
Just had a quick look at the forum, it’s looks good, thanks for the link. I suspect I’ll probably spend quite some time browsing round it. The guide to losing your virginity later in life sounds particularly interesting as I have to confess I have actually googled things like “how to have sex for the first time in your 30s”.
interesting forum! I’ve never been a fan of forums but I read a few of the posts there. I’m always conflicted when I wonder if I would be considered an involuntary or voluntary virgin. To an extent it’s involuntary (of course I would love to have a boyfriend who I could be sleeping with) but girls like you and I are strongly voluntary virgins as well because if we weren’t we could’ve just done it with just any of the guys who wanted to just hook up with us– but we choose to wait for someone more special. So I’d like to think that I’m waiting voluntary haha
katya: not to worry, i kinda did similar googling too before haha!
s212 brings up good points on whether it’s involuntary or voluntary. i think most involuntary virgins are in fact somewhat “voluntary” ‘coz they just didn’t want to give it away to any ole rubbish guy.
My WordPress app actually worked this time and sent me your comments so I had a little time to stew over them before responding
Come on, we know we’ve all googled the crap out of late virginity… but if you guys actually have found something worthwhile, please share! Mostly I end up with a bunch of porn sites (yay).
S212 & Jo: When I first read what you had to say about the voluntary/involuntary aspect- it seemed obvious to me that I was a voluntary celibate… but after thinking about it, I don’t think it’s all that simple. The involuntary celibate is usually male- I think that’s the line. Not all men can just go out and get laid like we can. However, they do have the option to buy sex which indicates that all involuntary celibates aren’t completely unable to have sex. At any point, both sexes could have sexual intercourse (through either random hook ups or prostitutes).
After evaluating what incel actually is, I’ve realized that it focuses on the human connection along with the sexual connection. Here are some key words in the description that stuck to me:
Involuntary celibacy is the absence in human sexuality of intimate relationships or sexual intercourse for reasons other than voluntary celibacy, asexuality, antisexualism, or sexual abstinence… [it] describes those who, despite being open to sexual intimacy and potential romance with someone and also making active, repeated efforts towards such an end, cannot cause any such end(s) to occur with any significant degree of regularity—or even at all…
So basically, I could go have sex with a random guy while another incel could have sex with a prostitute… but that defeats the purpose.
I don’t really know if my understanding of this is very clear but I think that’s generally what it’s about.
Finaly i found what i wanted.
“However, they do have the option to buy sex which indicates that all involuntary celibates aren’t completely unable to have sex. ”
Careful there GW it depends on the state and the legality of prostitution, you are also forgetting that not all prostitutes reciprocate just because you given them money (rolling a john). So men don’t have the option to truly buy sex depending on the state their in. So don’t be quick to assume men can get sex that easily without breaking the law and putting themselves and others in risk.
Also keep in mind a man desperate for sex is a turn of for many women they bodies give signals that show signs of sexual desperation in turn the woman will subconsciously judge that man and question his sexual worthiness. Where as desperate women can get sex very easily providing they don’t shoot too high (aka a marriage rich man in a BMW) but will lack the romance.
But incel truly means you can’t have sex (the act of sexual intercourse) because no one wants to have sex with you, NOT you can’t have a romantic feelings or relationships which you can easily without sex for short periods of time or even long periods.
I don’t know dsawden, I feel like everyone has different definitions about what being an incel actually is and, generally, I do believe that I fit into the category.
I fit the category of incel. I’m only interested in being with women I’m really attracted to. I need to admire their beauty and character. If one of those qualities is lacking it’s a no go. I’m not easy. And yes I’m a guy, and with extremely low mileage, though I’m good in the department of making love, but apparently not very good in the attraction department with the women I’m interested in, – the beauties.
“I feel like everyone has different definitions about what being an incel actually is ”
I understand what you mean when you say you fit in that catergory thats because your confusing celibacy with involuntary celibacy. And the people that do this aren’t real incels they just think they are because they’ve set too high standards.
Incel simply means unable to have sex because you can’t. You don’t have the choice to have sex because it isn’t available to you. The option of romance and additional dimensions are irrelevant this is simply the basic act of sex if you can get everything from romance, love closeness etc and not get sex YOU ARE still not getting sex period.
G/W the fact that you say you can get sex means you are not an incel sorry to break it to you it yes it defeats the purpose of calling yourself an incel but who on earth would want to be an incel? not be able to have sex as an option? seriously?.
Think of it like starving an incel is like someone who can’t get food whereas you sound like someone who can’t seem to get “good” food. And yes there are women who have this problem too, perhaps a bad reputation, unattractiveness, mental problems that perhaps scare men away from initmacy. So i wouldn’t be so quick to expand and confuse this clear definition its insulting to the people who suffer it.
Like Jo before you said. “i think most involuntary virgins are in fact somewhat “voluntary” ‘coz they just didn’t want to give it away to any ole rubbish guy.”
These people are posers they only thing stopping them getting sex is themselves because they CHOOSE to. A perfect example of involuntary celibacy would be a secluded prisoner on maximum security who isnt allowed any initmate contact with anyone they have no choice. Thats the difference a celibate has the choice an incel doesn’t its the opposite there are no fine lines. Like Fasting and Starvation.
I still stand by it and I’ll explain why.
If we use your definition, then no one is an incel except for people who live in solitary conditions (such as a maximum security inmate) including yourself. I know the opposite to be true because, as I’ve found out recently, incels are abundant in society.
Like I said before, a male incel could hire a prostitute to have sex (or drive to a state where it’s legal or find a “rubbish” girl if they don’t want to drive) just like I could sleep with any “rubbish guy” so either way all incels can get food but we can’t get “good” food. To say that you can only by incel if you can’t find anyone to have sex with is misleading. I’m sure tons of male incels have been in the presence of women who would sleep with them whether they know it or not- I can bet on that. It’s just that they can’t find it in them to approach these women or start interactions with them. So they’re not incels either?
I really think the problem is that our definitions lies in gender differences. For you, it seems like incel is about not having sex and nothing else. For me, incel is about not having sex from a lack of ability to communicate and relate to the opposite sex.
The truth of the matter is that I’m not comfortable with meeting men. I’m not comfortable with communicating with them in romantic contexts no matter how badly I want to. It’s not even that I’m not comfortable- when it comes down to it, I am physically unable to even hold the eye contact for a man who I find attractive.
I’m a little disturbed that you think that by celibacy is a result of my “high standards” because I don’t think finding a person I share a mutual attraction with is a high standard. I’d say that this is what most incels look for.
If you want to brand me as a voluntary celibate, that’s your prerogative. But as far as I’m concerned, I am an incel. I derive meaning from being one, I can relate to other incels and the information that they find helps me as well.
G\W, seriously, anyone? Here’s my story then.
I’m 25. I’m a virgin. I can’t get anyone to have sex with me. I live in Saint-Petersburg, Russia and barely make ends meet with my meager income. I can’t afford the prostitutes that post their ads online and I don’t have the connections to get in touch with the ones who charge less.
I’ve been actively trying to relieve my incel since I was 20, but women have consistently rejected me because I just happen to be ugly, disfigured and physically weak due to a chronic illness which I can’t treat because I can’t pay for even a diagnosis. So which part am I missing? What can I do to have sex?
As for female celibacy being a voluntary thing… well, I when I was still in university, there was a girl in my group who weighed around 300 pounds, smelled and was a complete mess socially. I was in the same group with her for two years and during that time she went through three boyfriends. If you really wanted to alleviate your celibacy, you would easily get laid with almost any guy you wanted. But you don’t. Your standards are more important to you and I can respect that. What I can’t respect is the way you’re grabbing for pity by claiming to be involuntarily celibate. You know, it’s a long shot but it can be argued that the world, god or whatever owes one a sexual partner, but there is no way in hell it owes one a sexual partner of a certain level of attractiveness. Realize that by doing this, you’re actively diminishing the value of the problems people like me face. You are hurting us.
“What I can’t respect is the way you’re grabbing for pity by claiming to be involuntarily celibate.”
It’s clear that you’re the one who is grabbing for pity. I’m the one who is trying to work through my own problems and I have sympathy for anyone going through the same. I’ve never claimed to be in a better or worse situation than anyone else. And frankly, I don’t need to defend my incel status from you.
Wow. Some of these comments are clearly making incorrect assumptions and some have just been insensitive.
I am female, 38, well-educated, intelligent, funny, gainfully-employed, kind, reasonably attractive. I am an excellent cook. I donate my time and money to charitable causes. I have friends and hobbies. I own my own home. Honestly, I’m not a bad catch. But I am still a virgin.
I have been on three dates in my life. Let me be clear: it’s not because I’m too picky. I just don’t get asked. It’s not about my choices; it’s about my (lack of) opportunities. Nothing about this is *consciously* voluntary. I would love nothing more than to be married, have a family. But that option has never (NEVER) presented itself to me.
Allegra, you summed it up beautifully.
Pingback: Is it over? Am I finally comfortable with men? Is my virginity next? | The Virgin Side of Life